Discussion Topic: Spanking

Spankin children as a form of punishment or as a way to manae behaviour has shown a lon-term decline. However, some parents still  support spankin. Do you think spankin is necessary? Is it counterproductive and danerous? Do you think it should be considered child-abuse?

Please discuss....

Comments

[Dawn (webmiztris)]

I don't see anything wrong with a little spanking.

If you're leaving bruises, then that's going overboard though.

[Adamant]

My Mom could let me know I was in trouble with a single look and what ever I was doing stopped right then.

If I had carried on, I probably would have got a paddling. I never did because the respect was instilled from an early age.

I think you have to set the rules early on and spanking becomes redundant anyway.

[Shane]

I tend to think of spanking as the exhaustion of the parents'/guardians' social-emotional resources. When all else fails etc etc - that doesn't mean that I'd be comfortable spanking. I see it as something that can be avoided where there's time, patience, subtlety and 'emotional intelligence' (an ugly phrase) in reading a child's actions. A rare combination.

[UV]

I agree with Dawn. A swat on the butt is okay and often more effective for little kids than anything else. I'd avoid swatting a teen, however, especially if you've enrolled them in karate.

Just sayin'. ;-)

[Phil]

I and my siblings got spanked every now and again. Not often, because we learned very quickly how far things could be pushed before we crossed that line. I don't view it as child abuse or abusive, in general. But I'd like to specify that I'm talking about traditional spanking . . . child over the knee, open hand, on the rump, 2-3 swats (just enough to get the point accross), as punishment for major misbehavior. Using a closed hand, a brush/belt/utensil, hitting to the point of bruising, smacking any part other than the rump, or using it as the primary/only form of punishment is not acceptable, IMO. And yes, I do feel it can be necessary. I've known plenty of people who grew up with parents who believed in spanking and many w/parents who refused. Far and away, the ones who's parents refused to spank were the terror children and grew up to have serious problems. Not 100%, but by and large the majority.

[Cara]

I was spanked (very rarely) as a child and I do not feel that it is child abuse. The one time I remember receiving a spaking is when I was about 8 years old and I climbed out of our upstairs bathroom window to walk around on the roof. My Dad heard my footsteps on the roof and more out of fear than anger spanked for climbing on the roof. Obviously, I never did that again.
My kids were spanked very sparingly when they were 2-4 years old but I've found that other forms of punishment works better for my children. As long as spanking is used only for corporal punishment and leaves no marks or bruises I don't see anything wrong with doing it.

[Shannin]

I was spanked about 3 or 4 times growing up, and I don't think I'm any worse for wear. I do not think it's abuse as long as it's done 1) to your own child, 2) with an open hand, 3) NOT using any belt/rod/wooden spoon/switch, etc.

[maryse]

i have very mixed feelings about this for a couple of reasons: 1. i don't have kids; and 2. although my mother called it "spanking," many times she crossed the line. i received more than my share of beatings with wooden spoons, belts, hair brushes and open palmed slaps about the head and face. i don't know. ask me after i've had a kid, if i ever do.

[sleepingmommy]

Oo a controversial topic.

Honestly it depends on the offense and the child. Spanking does no good at all with some children and others all it takes is a tap on the bottom to get their attention. Also it depends on what they did. If they have been repeatedly told and other measures have been taken to keep them from something dangerous such as running into the road for example then it may be warranted. But only if it is effective for THAT child.

[trine]

I am against spanking children for many reasons
I believe its wrong to physically punish children, they are small and defenseless, and showing them violence is only going to teach them violence.

however, I realise this is a cultural question, and as I am norwegian and my husband is english we've had many discussions about this. In norway spanking is a complete NO NO, whereas in the UK it is only now becoming a public topic of conversation.

Despite my strong feelings in this matter, I do believe there are moments where physical control of your child might be necessary - an example is if he/she is running out in the road in front of a lorry, in which case pulling them strongly into safety, would be acceptible.

But lashing out in a moment of frustration is never going to teach the child anything but violence..

[tommy]

I think spanking is fine, I also think it should not be the only punishment you use. The frequent problem with non-spanking is the child might not think that it is punishment. Punishment, especially for the very young needs to be immediate and obvious that they are being punished.

[Cheryl]

Anything done in anger is wrong - it turns a punishment into retribution and teaches a child that its ok to be selfish, vicious, spiteful etc even as an adult.
Taking all emotion out of the equation, I honestly believe a short quick sting on the legs or bottom is a more humane punishment than grounding or removal of priveliges. Its nasty enough to be avoided, but its over and done with in a moment; unless you spit fire afterwards instead of giving them a hug, but thats back to what anger does.

[melina]

A firm swat always got my kids' attention used in the proper scenario and a "crime fit the punishment" situation.

I didn't ever "schedule" a spanking. If the behaviour warranted it, there might be a spank.

I tried to get down at their level, eye-level, and if that didn't work, removing them (and me) from the situation. Time-outs in their crib/bedroom happened a lot too.

I'm not gonna lie; I lost my temper sometimes and yelled. Out of my three kids, Breebs was the one who pushed the most buttons. There have been a couple times I almost (and I emphasize almost) "lost it" with her. Any parent who says they've never done that is either heavily sedated or lies like a rug.

[trine]

I too lose my temper with my daugther and I know very well that when I put on my deep dark voice and boom NOOOOO at her, she shits her pants! If she is about to put her hand on my glowing hot cooker then Yes, I pull her arm away and - hence you could argue - use violence against her.

but surely the problem is who decides what is the "proper scenario"? when is it ok to spank vis a vis telling off? how hard is too hard?

[Sarah]

I think it's ok as long as you only use your hand (no belts, whips, etc) and you don't leave marks. I will spank Little Man's tuchus or his hand if he is not listening to me...of course he is only one and usually just laughs at me.

[aka_monty]

I was spanked several times as a child (with a belt sometimes), and NEVER undeservedly.
I, too, am a spanker...with guidelines.
It IS sort of a last resort punishment...in that I mean I don't just spank for anything.
It is THE most serious punishment. And I don't spank when I'm angry, I end up doing exactly what my dad did to my brother and me: sending us to bend over the bed, and WAIT. Like the song says, The Waiting Is The Hardest Part.
I understand NOW that he used that time to calm himself down, so that a simple spanking didn't evolve into a beating.
I think I turned out okay...and as I rarely have to spank my daughter, I don't think it has done her any harm either. ;)

[Paul]

As a child I feared nothing more then the righteous retribution my father could bestow upon me with a nice firm couple of smack on the ass. I did not fear my teachers, the cops or anyone in authority as much as my father for that simple reason. My dad is a loving man BUT he had rules.

I can now as a grown up appreciate those spankings and the fear of them. I can apprecaite it because of the fear that kept me from doing some extremly stupid crap as a kid.

I've seen the results of some kids whos parents never once raised a hand even in threat against their kids and I'll pass on raising a couple of rude brats like that. Should it be illegal? NO, Should it be the absolute last resort after every no physical means has been exhausted and the little shiat still doesn't get it? YES. :)

Thats just me though..

cheers.

P.

[franchini]

I am in the UK and among the parents I know smacking is simply not done. Nobody does it. I don't like the idea of getting physical with my children and have never raised a hand to them, despite provocation. It's not dignified for either party to smack. Having said that, if you don't, all you are then left with is trying to negotiate verbally with a kid, which is so difficult as they don't play by fair and square rules of negotiation. It's still the preferable way for me though. And I'm still reasonably sane.

[carson]

I'm a spanker. It's not the first--nor second, nor third for that matter--line of discipline, but it is an effective one. The last spanking was meted out here when my daughter was warned that if she stood on her head on the couch again, she would get a spanking. That was over a year ago. I spank only if the consequence has been spelled out and the spankee warned. And if I'm not angry. Honestly, with my kid, counting to 3 followed by an instant time-out is much more effective. I have to be much more consistent, as in I can't ask twice for something. Big pain in the neck.

But who knows? Each kid is different. I don't think spanking is abusive. (No marks, no bruises, not in anger.) And "abusive" is relative to the kid. What is damaging to one may not be to another.

[Raehan]

I have spanked twice--once when I was scared (my daughter was hiding from me in a new house). What scared me about it was that it was easier the second time and even though it did not seem hard I did leave a mark on her bottom. So I made a mental note not to do it anymore, lest it got easier and easier.

But I do think in certain cases it might be necessary. For example, a toddler who has put herself in a great deal of danger and does not have the language to understand not to do it.

But in most instances I can't see a spanking doing much good. I feared my father's judgement of me and that was enough to put me in line. A look would do it.

[elle]

Spanking amongst consenting adults is okay in my book. Did I read the question correctly??

I don't spank as a rule. But I have, and I hate myself for it. It was done out of fear, and shock and I will never do it again. No one wins. Time outs work. Talking works. Loving works. (I'm not saying that you don't love your kids if you spank.)

I was never spanked as a child but I was hit, alot.

[Rockchild]

My mom has not spank me in a long time, just dad now, when she catches him!

[[loquacious] Mary]

I have read all the comments and I agree most closely with elle. We have 2 kids (6 &10) and we don't spank. That doesn't mean we don't discipline.

Raising kids to be kind, caring, loving and to want to find a place in the world and make a difference in it is the most difficult (and also most rewarding) thing in life. At least life as I know it, so far. My brain simply cannot make sense of using threats of harm against them to help them learn and grow and to give them a good sense of boundaries and self-respect. Not even a swift little pat. I just can't do it. But that's just me (and my hubby concurs).

That's not to say there haven't been cases where I've nearly "lost it" on them (like melina said, I think every parent has been there at least once; we are human beings with emotions that can get out of whack, for sure). But smacking them has never even been an option that I could consider as a response to their behavior (or as a threat to a behavior they may be heading toward).

We do the time-outs and LOTS of talking (and even humor and hugs afterward, if you can believe it.) It works for us. We also use withholding of POSITIVE things instead of inflicting negatives. It kills my daughter to NOT be able to pick out a book on our next trip to the used book store because she called her brother a nasty name, for example. I know what motivates them and what gets their attention and I use it. We'll talk about why its UNACCEPTABLE (and they learn what IS acceptable) to do something and there is a consequence for choosing to do the unacceptable thing anyway. And you better believe I hold true to whatever the consequence is. They mourn the thing they're missing out on. They learn about choices and boundaries and danger and safety self-control and reparation and apologies, all by talking about what happened and by hearing the tones in our voice and making eye contact with our serious stares. When the situation has been resolved we give them lots of praise and encourage them how to act/respond to similar situations in the future. And, going back to my bookstore example, we'll point out how great it is that everybody's getting along, and isn't it fun for everyone to be able to pick out new books when we're all behaving? etc etc. We've been doing this, in modified forms, all their lives. I believe it will keep working and I sure as hell hope so because if/when my son ever gets into some kind of serious trouble I want him to TALK to me about it and not fear me smacking him. And when my kids are both past the spanking age anyway, I want them to have their own self-discpline and know that they CAN make sense of things because they've been given the tools to do so in all the lessons they've learned.

I can already see that my kids are uncomfortable in homes where the parents spank their kids. My own sis-in-law (whom I love and admire) spanks my nieces and they are about the same age as my kids. My kids were in shock when they witnessed spankings at their house. It's just counter-intuitive to me to have any form of pain or violence purposely inflicted on another human in order to have them "learn" something; I can tell my kids have that same gut feeling that the spanking just doesn't seem right. Call me naive and a pacifist with her head in the clouds but I'd rather my kids feel shocked at the sight of a child being spanked than not (especially when the spanking is clearly out of anger). And if I'm being really honest, I have to say my kids, for the most part are "easy". They are polite and sensitive and sometimes too smart for their own good, but rarely disobedient. At this point my husband and I are taking full credit for that! ;) But when discipline is called for, we have our plan in place and we stick to it. And yes, I've had my experiences of having to pick up a very tired 3 year old off the floor of a shopping mall with him banging his sippy cup on my head and pouring milk all over me and screaming at me as I try to scoop him up and find a time-out place while dozens of parents are looking at me to control my child, trust me. Sometimes it's pure chaos, as I'm sure all you parents know. It's hard, but I force myself to tune out the other people and slow down and stay in control and focus on my child who needs me. It's hard. Did I mention it's hard?

I'd also like to comment that I think ignoring a child's need for discipline is very wrong.
I used to HATE it when, as a kid, when my parents would send me to my room for being a brat (they didn't spank either) and then hours later they'd call me for dinner like nothing happened and nobody said anything. That sucked. I think ignoring the situation is a mild form of neglect. A child is usually doing a "bad" behavior to get attention or to be heard in some way. Shushing and forgetting, to me, is like going backwards (she says, realizing full well she's still dealing with "issues" from her teenhood).

Btw, I'm NOT judging spankers here. And I've read some of your blogs and I KNOW you are great parents, and ones who teach with words and actions that are not just spanking. But what I really don't understand is when a child does something that is either unsafe (to himself or others) or mean or disobedient and the parent says "stop it or you'll get a spanking" and that's ALL they say. Then of course the child does X behavior and gets the spanking, as promised. What does the child learn from the situation? That it's not safe to run out in the street because he could get hit? That poking his sister's eye is dangerous? That taking something that doesn't belong to him is wrong and considered stealing? Does a wordless spank (the kind where the parent is biting their tongue so they don't yell in public) really say all that? It REALLY frustrates me when I see this happen in public with other kids and parents. Parents seem too frazzled or tired or lazy to stop and slow down and EXPLAIN what's wrong and why it's not ok, then explain what IS ok. Aren't our kids worth our words? our time? our guidance?

Sorry my 2 little cents became so long and rambly!

♥

[peri]

As a child abuse survivor, of course I am against spanking.
I broke the cycle and refused to physically punish in any way, and I am glad.

I think it is parents who need the "time out".
Kids are kids.
Most children are smart human beings, and if you treat them with respect and give them a feeling of "duty" to be good, they will not disappoint.
When a child has a feeling that his parent trusts him to behave appropriately, they beam with confidence and feel good about behaving.

[Sigmund, Carl and Alfred]

There is no longer a need to spank children.

Cattle prods and tasers are far more effective- and if you tell the child they are lightning bolts from Zeus, any investigations instigated by teachers will be quicklt attributed to a whacked out child. Its a win-win situation. You get to zap your kid and you get to zap your kids.

[Kimberly]

They do this just to get a rise out of you, eh, Michele?

I agree with them right up to the end of the first sentence. There are plenty of other ways to effectively discipline children.

[Sigmund, Carl and Alfred]

Kimberly...repeat after us....BZZZZZZZZZZT! BZZZZZZT!

Admit it- you LAUGHED!

[Sigmund, Carl and Alfred]

And yes, we are quite adept at getting a rise out of her- just as she is adept at doing the same.

[kalisah]

We chose not to spank our child. Occasionally (I can think of only once), I completely lost my temper with him and spanked him.

I can only imagine what I might have done had spanking been an acceptable form of regular discipline.

[kenju]

I used to swat my kids when they were little and I now realize how demoralizing it was for them. Spanking mostly teaches violence as a response to authority. I would not do it to small children now, and I am sorry I did it back then.

[A-Dub]

I have very mixed feelings about spanking. I was a pretty good kid growing up and probably got a handful of spankings from birth to 12 (Im not saying my mom spanked me when i was an infant...i just dont know when the first one was. I certainly remember when the last one was though. and I remembered exactly what i did to get it).

my aunt and her husband had/have a bunch of kids. they were ALWAYS misbehaving and always getting spanked. I really think that after a while, the kid gets used to it and it doesnt matter to them anyway. If the spankings were effective, they probably would have been spanked LESS, and they probably wouldnt have fought EACH OTHER as much.

I personally dont think I'll spank my kids, but who knows? I dont have any yet. My personal "fear" is that I'll send my child mixed messages. I happen to be a pacifist, so if I teach my child that violence is wrong and that *they* shouldnt hit Tommy at school or their little brother at home, but *I* hit them...i think that might confuse them.

[Scully]

Disciplining anyone out of anger is detrimental and dangerous.

Remember, discipline means to teach, not to punish.

I spanked my child. And only after I had thought about it, never immediately after he had done something that warranted it (which were pretty serious things). I also never threatened spanking over minor things. And when I told him he was going to get disciplined (either by being sent to his room, or having a toy taken away, or other privileges or a spanking) I followed through on my promise if he had failed to not to do something or continued to do something he wasn't supposed to do. I never made empty threats.

But I firmly believe that hitting a child out of anger is child abuse. That hitting a child for minor infractions could perhaps lead to more serious things such as physical child abuse. But I also think that mentally abusing a child is reprehensible as well.

So, my answers are:

1. Yes, at times spanking is necessary. I'm tired of dealing with adults in the workplace and in my social life who were never properly disciplined when they were children.

Some children will learn by being told. Some will learn by example. And some need firmer measures to remember the lesson.

2. It is only counterproductive when it isn't necessary, when it's used thoughtlessly and frivioulsy (by a lazy and impatient parent). And it's dangerous for all those reasons but also if it's done out of anger. I also don't believe an implement needs to be used. Your open hand is just fine (you get to feel it too - reminds you to keep it under control). And I think the bottom is the best place (or the top of the hand). Slapping the face or head is just wrong in my opinion.

3. I believe child abuse comes in many forms. Physical, the sickening sexual, and mental abuse.

I do not believe disciplining a child properly is abuse. But spanking a child does need to reviewed by the parent according to the child and the circumstances.

And I will say it again:

NEVER DISCIPLINE IN ANGER!!!!!!!!!

Yep, I have pretty strong views on this topic.

[M.C. Glammer]

The worst behaved kid I ever saw wasn't spanked. The best behaved also wasn't spanked. The worst behaved had two parents that doted on him while the best behaved was the child of a single mother. Her secret was to get the kid to figure out *why* something was wrong.

[Tom]

I spank often...and she loves it :-)

[lara]

I am a kid and just wondering about the law cause i want to be a lawer.I saw this and pressed on it by accident.But i'll respond.I do get spanked.I get it with a wooden spoon.I only get it when i do something wrong when i was told not to.My mom counts to three and if i don't respond then i get in trouble.My mom tells me to go to my room and wait for her.AS a kid she spanked me with her hand but ever since i was 8 i got the wooden spoon.She talks to me about it and then tells mr to pull down my pants and bend over my bed.then i get 2 swats.The most i've ever gotten is 4 cause i lied about not having my report card and i had a "c" so i hid it.Boy was i in trouble.I never did it again.But anyway after she spankes me she tells me to pull up my pants and then she hugs me and tells me she still loves me.She never leaves marks though.she believes that is abuse.

[lara]

well i might as well finish what i start.My dad never spanks me if it was his way i would be grounded.I would be grounded write now probably.Cause yesterday i got spanked. I am only 9.well i guess i'll tell you. i had some homework that i didn't do well bacause i forgot.But that is not a good enough excuse in my house.As always my mom sent me to my room and then talked to me and sent me to get a wooden spoon.She bent me over her lap cause my new bed is too tall know.Then i got 2 smacks.I hate to get spankings though.but it runs in my family.My little sis just got spanked with my moms hand over my moms lap.well someone respond

[The Judge]

Seems to me you need to contact an adult or the authorities, such as your teacher or minister.

[kay]

Is it abuse when a stepfather spanks his 6 and 7 year old step daughters without their clothes on? This has happened, not all the time, but has happened. I know of times he has left bruises on the girls after spanking hard with his hand. He never had children until this year, recently has his own son. He is too strick with the girls. He and the girls mother argue a lot about his way of discipline. She think he is too harsh with the girls. He tells the girls whenever he spanks them that they had better not tell their mother or anyone about it or they will get another spanking. The mother seems to go along with that which is surprising to me. I feel that the girls should be able to tell their mother anything and not have to be afraid of their stepfather spanking them for telling. A child should never be told not to tell. That gives the stepfather too much freedom to do whatever he wants to the girls.

[kay]

Is it abuse when a stepfather spanks his 6 and 7 year old step daughters without their clothes on? This has happened, not all the time, but has happened. I know of times he has left bruises on the girls after spanking hard with his hand. He never had children until this year, recently has his own son. He is too strick with the girls. He and the girls mother argue a lot about his way of discipline. She think he is too harsh with the girls. He tells the girls whenever he spanks them that they had better not tell their mother or anyone about it or they will get another spanking. The mother seems to go along with that which is surprising to me. I feel that the girls should be able to tell their mother anything and not have to be afraid of their stepfather spanking them for telling. A child should never be told not to tell. That gives the stepfather too much freedom to do whatever he wants to the girls.

[Michael from UK]

Spanking is only to be encouraged when it is taking place between consenting adults.

[GiGi]

I am actually just doing an essay paper on "To Spank or Not to Spank?" and reached this website. I'm 21 and I am spanked as a kid, I personally think spanking is necessary. Mostly it is my mom who spanked me when I was a kid, on my bare bottom, over the knee. When I was a kid, I always run away from it and think my parents are abusive parents too. However, the more older I am the more I understand why my parents are doing and they are correct and they are NO abusive parents. My mom may leave some reddness on my bottom and it may sore a bit for a few hours and that's it, which made me a BETTER person! It's no big deal to leave some reddness on a child's bottom but no brusing of course. My mom would spank me till I cry hard or kicking like a baby, (parents do know if their kid is fake crying or not)and i know my mom's doing it for my own good. I am spanked until grade 9. My LAST spanking was the WORST!! Spanked by my Dad and my one and only time by dad too. It was when I was in grade 9, doing some illegal teenage thing (shoplifting for fun) and got caught, but didn't get arrested. So nice of the store owner!! and spanked by my dad on my bare bottom with his hands to warm up then a slipper then ended with his hand spanking again. That time was my LAST spanking, no matter how hard I cried and kicked, I was trying to get away too, he just grabbed me firmly and continue with his spanking until he thinks it was enough. Maybe because it was on my bare, so my butt and the upper thighs are all red. Afterwards, both my parents explained to me the consequences, etc. I have never tried to do anything bad again!

Please email me with information with regards to my essay. Thanks! an_i_kay@hotmail.com

[Trevor]

When I was growing up in the sixties,spanking was the accepted and common form of correction and we never questioned it.I had my bare bottom smacked(or"warmed" as my Mother smtimes called it)hard and regularly accross my Mothers lap,
often just with her palm but sometimes with the hairbrush, which stung terribly on bare flesh.I was spanked in this way right into my teens and cant say I enjoyed the experience but looking back I am sure it hurt Mum almost as it did me. Her spankings were never carried out with malice or agrsion, just a calm authority which I never questioned. I have grown up to be a polite humanbeing with respect for others and I am more than greatfull for Mothers strict upbringing.

[Trevor]

When I was growing up in the sixties,spanking was the accepted and common form of correction and we never questioned it.I had my bare bottom smacked(or"warmed" as my Mother smtimes called it)hard and regularly accross my Mothers lap,
often just with her palm but sometimes with the hairbrush, which stung terribly on bare flesh.I was spanked in this way right into my teens and cant say I enjoyed the experience but looking back I am sure it hurt Mum almost as it did me. Her spankings were never carried out with malice or agresion, just a calm authority which I never questioned. I have grown up to be a polite humanbeing with respect for others and I am more than greatfull for Mothers strict upbringing.

[Brandi]

my dad died when I was 2 months old and it's just me and my mom, i'm 9. my mom is a dectective and is strict. she always says it's because she sees too much out there and I'm a girl. my mom never hit me until about 2 months ago. i was suppose to be with my daycare group and I went off on my own in a wooded park and lost track of time playing. the daycare called her and lots of people came looking. after I was found mom took me home and sent me to my room. after she came in and i got it good. she put me over her knee and spanked me. after i was crying and she started crying too, she thought something had happened to me. i felt really really bad because i love my mom and wouldn't hurt her for nothing. i don't think i was abused because she would never hurt me. sometimes kids need to get spanked